FG: I feel so sick – I’ve just read this.
SL: I have no words. That’s not what the hijab is about, politicizing Islam and the twisted view of the Ayotollah is frankly disgusting.
FG: I could not imagine what was going on in her head.
The poor girl was raped and gang raped at that, reports it and is stoned to death? That will really teach the men that committed such a heinous and abhorrent crime to a child. She was going to the police for help and support to which they treated her like that? THEN, the crowd suddenly have a conscience, try to fight back and stop it… the armed guards open fire and shoot a child. So angry that humans are so sick – all in the name of “religion”.
SL: Unfortunately, it’s been going on since the beginning of time, and it will continue so.
FG: Of course it has. However, I cannot sit here and do nothing about it. I have just signed the petition! It can and it will be stopped. Witchhunts have stopped…. It’s all about intelligence and civilisation.
SL: Civilisation evolves through intelligence yes – militants do not evolve unless you kill them all, and it’s the Islamic militants who are reigning supreme in Somalia who doesn’t have a government and they haven’t had one since 1991, they’re a poor nation therefore the West don’t really care as they have more important things to deal with like Iraq and Iran and the apparent threat of immediate nuclear warhead release. A single life is not anything to them, if this has been rife since 1991, what have they been doing the last 10years?? There’s only so much charity can do. Every single religion has peace at the core of its belief, it’s how people twist religion to suit their needs which is exactly what has happened to every religion since the dawn of time.
FG: Oh do not get me wrong, I am aware of that. I do believe that was around the time of the Civil War? My father was in Africa then. They are, yes, a poor nation by Western standards but they are a corrupt one at that. You do not need to be intelligent to realise that stoning a child to death is wrong and what frightens me the most is that people obviously paid to watch that execution. If you look at it, at face value; it has all the makings of Medieval Ages in Britain and Europe (i.e. Witch Hunts, Hangings, and Beheading etc etc). However, people have evolved to release that this is wrong. Why has it taken so long for countries like Iran, Somalia, Iraq and places like Indonesia to realise this? There is no excuse. It is a power thing and a brain washing exercise of the masses.
SL: I also agree it is about control, evils are around these days in a lesser form than how they were originally. The evil always brainwash the masses, that’s how they get away with their heinous crimes and poisoning of the senses. Identical subject point is equal to that of slavery – that was in the name of religion – but twisted religion, where did it say in the Bible that whites are better than blacks? How long did that go on for before the Africans were freed? If nobody does anything about it at inception, it spirals out of control, nobody listens to the one voice against the oppressors until the oppressors reach the point of no return and are ridiculed by their own stupidity. I do think though that developed countries can snip stuff like this in the bud and prevent escalation but they choose not to do so as it benefits their own society, every government is corrupt (US is a prime example). Corruption of/in the poorer countries aids the development of western countries; Russia / Afghanistan /US, Mexico / Cuba / Nicaragua / US, Israel / US, the American’s bought Alaska for $2 a square mile or something in the history of time (lo and behold its rich with oil and gold). How convenient.
In the background though, when Islam was emerging, Muslims made such headway in science, philosophy, astronomy, culture, etc etc in the same era as the Greeks / Romans etc, there were no fundamentalist attitudes out there and somewhere along the way it ceased, what changed I don’t know, the answer I’m sure is in literary and historical artefacts no doubt.
I would cry if I was living in the 3rd world and I’m thankful for what I have, but at the same time, governments disseminate democracy and human rights conventions, policies and laws but how are they actually putting this into practice for the wider world when things like this go on for such long periods of time without serious effort, involvement or interference on their part? Their (our) lack of interference is a heinous crime.
Medieval Age was laced with Christian doctrine which developed over seven centuries, the “Crusaders” – were they Crusaders or Christian militants and by no means am I using this as justification but the Crusaders disappeared over time – and this crazy Islamist behaviour can only disappear with time. I believe you would be quite hard pressed to find a Muslim who agrees with Islamic Militant / Fundamentalist Sharia laws that these countries “abide” by. It’s not the right way of thinking and it’s not what Islam, and by default any other religion is about. I know you don’t believe in God but I would hope that you know that the religious letter word for word is holy and supreme for every religion. Humanity does not have the capacity to grasp the concept of eternal peace, religion is re-written for greed and usually for the sufferance of the weaker and helpless in society which I think is where the problem stems from.
If you have a world based on monetary value, religion has no part which is the way with the Western world – and the Western world is based on Christianity, which in itself has also lapsed and become corrupted over time. The issue with the Middle Eastern world is that Islam has such belief – it is the youngest religion – that they don’t know how yet to combine it with politics and governance and you are correct – it IS backwards as parts of the law were written for a time where behaviour is not the same as it is now, society evolves and religion should evolve with it, but those in power won’t let it happen. They are still living in the 1400s, but this will elapse over time in the same way Christianity has. Humanity is born of religion, and religion also dictates the destruction of society. Each religion or belief in God, insanely, is about peace. Where is the peace?
FG: Firstly, I must say that one enjoyed that “article” that you have written. It is perfectly written and you portray your opinion very well indeed. So Well Done!!
I do not wish for you think feel that this is some sort of attack on the religion that is Islam for that could not be any further from the truth my dear friend. My opinion is that, religion in general causes war! My deity and idol in the science world (Richard Dawkins) once stated that “Religion causes war by generating certainty” which I cannot help and I am rather inclined to agree with him!
In this day and age all you need to is turn on the television and/or pick up a newspaper to see that wars are taking place due to religious beliefs, indirectly and directly! Obviously, the recent example is the formation of anti-Western revolutionary ideologies, evidence stands in the shape and form suicide bombers giving their justification for committing the crime of one for their religious beliefs via the internet and/or videos. I once again cannot help but feel that “Belief leads to intolerance and ultimately to conflict”, of course this open to personal opinion and interpretation.
I just feel that when freedom of conscience, religious freedom, women’s rights or other important rights are being abused, everyone should automatically stand up for this. One person alone cannot change the government but surely the people of the country all combine together and challenge those who claim the religious affiliation. I did not see anyone standing up for these basic rights and condemning Ayatollah Khomeini’s when he expressed a death wish upon Salman Rushdie for his “Satanic Verses?” However, some might say that It is not religion that perpetrates violence, but people who are hell bent to use an ideology or a religious justification to control people’s thinking and restrain the most fundamental freedoms.
Oh the “Crusaders”!! We all know who they were – imperialistic!!! Not so much a product of the ‘Christian’ invaders bible, but rather their own agendas. Which brings me onto your first paragraph in relation to Oil and The USA – I shall say little worlds on this for the fear of being hunted down by the CIA/MI5!, but they also have their own agenda to which one cannot deny that! All I have to say is Dr Kelly and the British Government – we are not innocent….
You are right, I do not believe in God and/or religion. I just cannot understand why anyone regardless of age, race, religion and gender, feel that the most appropriate course of action is to stone a child to death after she was gang raped by members of her own society? That is my issue!
Power is an evil thing.
Peace? That will never happen….not if power, money and religion reign…. Oh and men….
SL: One presumed appreciation for the article would be reciprocated, one did not gain a 2:1 Honours Degree in English Literature for an inane purpose. It is but a sore shame one has been unable to write with such critical clarity for some time since one’s graduation in 2003.
Of course I would not think that was the matter at all, although I am sure you will agree it is no coincidence that the common denominator of the countries in question, is in fact the governance of Islamic tenet.
I disagree slightly and would say that interpretation of religion is the cause of war, however, I do agree with Dawkin’s statement as you have described. (I would mention here that your reference to Dawkins as “deity” is somewhat incorrect as he is not a supernatural being, and I am sure he would agree this point also as the supernatural is not inherent of his belief systems).
Regarding your statement, “belief leads to intolerance and ultimately to conflict”, I believe it is those extremists of belief that cause wars but perhaps you may refer to this as indirect conclusion of religion, oui? I also believe the same, however, what I find discontenting is that although the exercise of debilitating women’s rights is taking place in these narcissistic countries, it has no part in the Islamic concept of women. As you know, my beliefs in Islam are not to the point where one would refer to oneself as being traditional, however, Islamic concept pivots around modesty. The extremists have taken this idea and convoluted it in such a way that it makes my blood boil, in the same way, that extracts of the Bible have been deleted which made reference to another religion being born.
Condemnation of Khomeini’s fatwa were not forthcoming as everyone likes to jump on the bandwagon in the same way free speech in the UK is actually not free speech anymore. Bandwagon in the UK in terms of its immigration policy back in the 1960s. Give anyone an excuse to jump on a riotous boat of presumptious empty intervention, and they will sail into misbelief and the hellfire. In the same way, the people who paid witness to the stoning of the innocent child and those that contrived the entire event have sunk so far into doctrine that common sense is obsolete. This is not the intention of religion and this saddens me also.
Then I conclude, unrejoicingly, we are in for some further sad times.